Curse

Jam Jar · Oct 25, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

From what I hear the only thing that N/W has over W/N is energy... and coolness (BIAS BIAS BIAS). The warrior has strength which is like totally > than Soul reaping. But if you think about it, if all an N/W has over W/N is energy, then soul reaping can help a bit. And as for strength, doesn't that Necromancer's attacks ignore blood already O_O?

As for armor, of course W/N will overpower N/W, but N/W can use health regeneration skills as their healing. However, the health regeneration skills (main ones are blood renewal, life siphon yeah lets go witht that), count as enchantments and hexes, so if they're removed, you're dead XD. Also, most hexes have casting times and can be interrupted (OUCH OUCH OUCH), not very cool

. These fact, however, can be conquered if you use instant attacks like vampire gaze, touch.

The W/N, on the other side, is stuck with Healing Signet. He only has 20 energy and using even 5 energy spells can be extremely deadly to their energy pool. Now, if you're relying on healing signet to survive, you are giong to run into problems. Ever heard of Mesmers or Rangers? The good side though is that you have more slots for damaging skills and can do more damage.

Speaking of skills, a N/W must and definately must have a healing skill or you will die. Curses, Blood are great trees for healing (with curses being more pvp since the cast times are usually longer) and should be used more to their maximum potential. THATS RIGHT MORE THAN YOUR ATTACK SKILL! If you can't heal, even though you may be interrupted or dehexified/enchantified, no healing is like you running naked with no weapon on into the battle field. There is, a very helpful thing about your healing methods. Most of your healing methods will do degeneration at the same time. Damage while you heal, is probably the best form of heal. Even a little can pressure ur opponent.

If you are looking for a weapon, the best is probably sword because of the extra conditions you can imply onto your opponent (muhahaha), and if you want to use tactics (for riposte + deadly riptoste, and maybe even some of the skills). Also, if you use sword, maybe you can throw in Virulence to do even mroe conditions XP. With a sword that isn't hard ha ha. If you're a fan of axe and hammer don't panic as well. Hammer can stun your opponent (less damage is always better), and axe can link up nice combos too

.

W/N's skills are probably only going to be Plaque touch, Healing Signet (or just rely on the monk), eh maybe ressurection sig + ATTACK SKILLS. Because you must rely on your damage skills to do damage, damage skills are going to make up for your lack of healing (not saying healing sigs bad or anything...). So if you can kill ur opponent quick, it will make your life easier.

I suggest Axe for a weapon, but you are free to pick whatever. Sword are good for conditions, and of course FT, but if you take too long to kill your opponent, tides will flip and YOU will be the one feeling the pain, you can go sword and virulence though, it doesn't cost too much and will rip your opponent apart. Hammer is great too, you can interrupt your opponent with knock downs and screw up their combos. Hey, knockdowns can screw up their healings as well

.

So all in all it comes mainly down to:

armor + melee damage versus energy + hexes + enchantments

Both have their ups and downs, but its a matter of opinion.

Please tell me more about these two classes if you know more (Hey, I'm learning too!).

YAYYYYYY

N E D M · Oct 27, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Fighting with a sword doesnt really pan out too well with a necro

Rexsis Kai · Oct 27, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Why can't people just play the class how it was MEANT to be played, a necro was never intended/made to be a melee combatant. For one their armor is way to low, and so what you can cast more spells than a W/N your still going to get bashed into the ground. Seriously a necro uses a wand/focus or a staff. not a Sword and Shield and run into battle. Thats like taking a wammo and designating him/her as the healer.... doesn't work that way. But whatever, play as you will, I just do not see the need to take a spell caster and turn him into a tank.

Tarzanboy · Oct 27, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Let's revisit the obvious.

For the Warrior let's go 12, 9, 9 for sword (100% damage with weapon), tactics (full shield value) and Strength.
For the Necro let's go 12 blood, 9 sword (~70% damage with weapon) and 9 tactics (full shield value).

Warriors have 80 armor base + AL 16 shield = 96 AL
Necros have 60 armor base + AL 16 shield = 76 AL

This equates to Necros taking ~25% more damage than a Warrior of the same skillset.

Energy isn't a big deal to a Warrior for healing as he uses Lions Comfort (60 healing @5 adrenaline) or Healing Signet (107 healing), two fairly quickly recharged skills that take no energy. Since there isn't a dependency on a huge energy pool they will take most likely take insignias to reduce damage (knight's), increase hp (survivor's) or most likely take AL improvers (Stalward, Sentry, Brawler, Dreadnought or Sentinel) increasing the survivability of the class. Runes will likely be minors with Vitaes and a Vigor for maximum hp.

Being as though the Necro needs 25% more healing, he's completely dependent on energy for skills that steal life without giving up any or needs to have more support to rejuvenate. Since there is a dependence on energy, insignias will likely be radiant; runes will likely include Attunement.

When it comes to damage inflicted, where the 3 point difference in weapon skills equates to an ~23% difference in damage, before counting the additional 9% (1 per point of strength) of armor penetration that the warrior receives from Strength. Add in the added effectiveness of attack skills and more effectiveness out of IAS such as Flail, the DPS on the Warrior far exceeds the Necro.

In melee situations Necros do less damage, take more damage, have an energy dependency and have fewer hitpoints than Warriors performing the same function. Necros are better away from the action where they can cast spells/hexes or raise minions without the annoyances of melee (interruptions, knockdowns and damage).

Cheers,
TB

Yanman.be · Oct 27, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

This is like comparing an A-10 Thunderbolt II 'Warthog' to the Sputnik.

Tarzanboy · Oct 27, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

This is like comparing an A-10 Thunderbolt II 'Warthog' to the Sputnik.

More like an M1A2 Abrams tank against an AH64 Apache.

One gets into the fray and can take hits.
The other shoots some stuff from the distance and dodges out to avoid taking hits.

Cheers,
TB

Dr Strangelove · Oct 27, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarzanboy

More like an M1A2 Abrams tank against an AH64 Apache.

One gets into the fray and can take hits.
The other shoots some stuff from the distance and dodges out to avoid taking hits.

Cheers,
TB

Much more like comparing bacon to your analogy. One is good, one is bad.

mmmmm bacon.

Draginvry · Oct 28, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Just go W/N

[skill]triple chop[/skill][skill]penetrating chop[/skill][skill]penetrating blow[/skill][skill]mark of pain[/skill][skill]barbs[/skill][skill]healing signet[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill]

And you WIN! lolz

Kaida the Heartless · Oct 28, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

More like comparing the class WoW Nerd to the Varsity Linebacker.

Lord Natural · Oct 28, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

The only time a Necro's damage output in melee range will be comparable to that of a warrior's, is playing a dark aura build. Since that build is usually more trouble than it's worth, you should never be trying to melee with a necro. If you're trying to get in close without dark aura, your damage won't match that of a warrior's, your lack of armor will chew up your monk's energy, and you'll probably be a burden to your team.

Draginvry · Oct 28, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

your lack of armor will chew up your monk's energy, and you'll probably be a burden to your team.

Every time I've seen a meelee necro, they've done nothing but chew up monk energy. They rush in spamming Vampiric Bite, run out of energy, and quickly resort to weak sword attack while their health bar drops halfway every two seconds.

The only more useless thing I've seen is a necro with daggers. But let's not go there. It brings back bad memories.

Abedeus · Oct 28, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

mmmmm bacon.

Why you little... That's "hrrahggghhh", not "mmmmm"!

And to all those Necro-or-monk-but-warrior-wannabe's - I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL YOUR WHOLE FAMILY! ...Oh, no, wait, you already get killed after logging in. But in farming, using a lot of blocking, heavy regen and Aura of the Lich, Necro/Warrior > Warrior/Necro, thanks to bonus energy and energy regeneration.

October Jade · Oct 29, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

The warrior has strength which is like totally > than Soul reaping.

This invalidates pretty much everything else that you could possibly say with regard to Guild Wars.

Secondly, if you are so fixated upon the idea of using a melee weapon, then there is really no discussion to be had. Warrior/X is nearly always better than X/Warrior in that situation. Thumping is the only exception I can think of.

Draginvry · Oct 29, 2007, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

Thumping is the only exception I can think of.

Or a melee paragon, although I don't know why a paragon would choose a sword over a spear.

Str0b0 · Oct 29, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

I swear to god if I see one more person even so much as think about a melee mancer I will kill myself. Once my rage tainted soul reaches whatever infernal realm it is destined for I will overthrow whatever dark lord reigns there and lash together a terrible machine of flesh and blood and human sorrows. I will use this engine of fear to bore a hole from that realm to this one and all they will hear is the sound of a thousand children screaming as if in the distance as a pustulant cloud of acrid smoke billows from the ceiling above their bed. I will step forth in all my glory and let them tremble in fear before being incinerated by my radiance, and as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my cheeks I will open up my six mouths and sing the song that ends the whole damned world!

Melee mancers are bad ideas! Don't make me destroy you! I'll do it! You'll see.

DRGN · Oct 29, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

This invalidates pretty much everything else that you could possibly say with regard to Guild Wars.

Secondly, if you are so fixated upon the idea of using a melee weapon, then there is really no discussion to be had. Warrior/X is nearly always better than X/Warrior in that situation. Thumping is the only exception I can think of.

I'd have to guess that he meant Strength was better than Soul Reaping with regards to this specific build. At least, I really HOPE so...

The only time a Necro should be in melee is if he's a Dark Aura build. Those can function alright and can be quite fun, but only in PvE/RA/CM like the other gimmick builds, and /W is a TERRIBLE secondary for that sort of thing. I can't see any reason why you would want to run N/W, even as a gimmick.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 29, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

I can't see any reason why you would want to run N/W, even as a gimmick.

Shields up and balanced stance.

i Valinor · Oct 29, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

the thing with a Meleemancer is ya sure you run around with a sword and shield or whatever, but really i never take more then 3 or 4 warriors skills, and i keep a casting set ready for the energy bump because there are alot of times when you just really dont want to be up close.

this is the basic template i use, it has gotten me through the first 2 chapters and 1/2 way through Nightfall (would be further but my Meleemancer is last on my list to progress).

1.Increase attack speed skill
2.interupt skill prefer something that does damage if not spinal shivers works
3.melee damage skill often i go with somthing that deep wounds too.
4. defensive stance
5.*Elite skill most of the time i take Spiteful spirit, soul leach or spoil victor or
even plague sending if i know im going to be taking on alot of conditions.
6.Mark of pain
7.life stealing or healing skill like taste of pain.
8.Res sig

12 +major rune in curses
9 in your weapon axe or sword
what ever you need in tactics for your defensive stance
and the rest into soul reaping and death if needed.

This is a little generic but its the format i have been using for a long time. As for a shield you dont need to put in enough points to get the full armor benefit because really you dont want to get hit by a big nasty melee character, you just cant take the beats(and oftent he points are used better els where), although grenths balance can be fun in a heavy melee areas but i would also recommend bring another defensive stance and dropping the lifestealing.

The 3 biggest problem i find with a Meleemancer is

A. you are not! a warrior you dont have alot to negate damage other then miss chance.
b. you are not! a warrior your not going to be handing out alot of high damage melee skills.
c. nobody likes you, everbody hates you no matter how well you can play.

everyone thinks then can run your class better then you and because meleemancing really isnt over the top powerful or popular they feel you arnt pulling your weight even though you can do a fine job at keeping damage up and you can bring somereally good utility skills to the table.

to sum this up a meleemancer is a neat trick to get some great numbers out of mark of pain and similair skills barbs, spinel etc. (casue god knows warriors a too dumb to not use there highest damage attacks on the target. heres a tip the longer a MoP target lives the more AoE damage you get. dont spike him until the cluster around you is dead).

meleemancer a jack of all trades, a master of none.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 29, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by i Valinor

The 3 biggest problem i find with a Meleemancer is

A. you are not! a warrior you dont have alot to negate damage other then miss chance.
b. you are not! a warrior your not going to be handing out alot of high damage melee skills.
c. nobody likes you, everbody hates you no matter how well you can play.

To sum up: You die really quickly, you can't deal damage, and as a result no one likes you.

Pick Me · Oct 29, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Warrior - AL: 80 vs all
Necromancer - AL: 70 vs all (except you take more damage from holy damage)

Warrior - specializes in melee damage
Necromancer - specializes in spellcasting

Warrior with sup runes on weapon specialization = big damage
Necromancers with sup runes in anything = lower survival in melee

Now Touch Rangers are better since they have e-management and defenses (Expertise).

Now, if you go with N/W - what do you hope to accomplish? Personally, you can go in several directions with this.

Tainted Warrior
Dark Aura Bomber (with Tactics)
Cursed Warrior
Lich Hacker
etc. using N/W builds

Now we all agree it isn't practicle to use a spellcaster to tank, although Heros seem to be great tanks when they are spellcasters (or those who wish they were tanks - right Zhed?). Anyway, it doesn't mean you can't have fun trying N/W builds, but yeah, other players will not appreciate spellcasters with Wammo or Ammo attitudes.